A provaxer watched Vaxxed

vaxdebunked

 

Yes, I did. I watched it. And, I am still provax.  Here is my review and commentary.

 

I am going to assume that readers know a lot about the CDC Whistleblower. But, if you need a refresher, here is a complete guide by my fellow blogger friend. Please refer to this guide for the evidence that most, if not all, of the claims made in Vaxxed have been proven false. There is no isolated autism, there is no greater risk of autism in African American boys, the data was not thrown away. It is notable that the filmmakers took only Dr Thompsons’s word about the issues, via uncorroborated and possibly highly edited taped conversations with Dr Brian Hooker. Nowhere in the film are any other autism/vaccine scientists interviewed.

 

If you need to know more about the cast of characters, Dawn has created a short bio for each of them.

 

The film opens with news clips about vaccines and measles and then switches to someone typing on a keyboard and producer Del Bigtree’s voice quoting from William Thompson.  We then hear taped recordings from Thompson’s conversations with Brian Hooker and Hooker begins to tell the story of his child, who is now autistic. Of course, the recent “vaccine court” opinion on Hooker’s son’s case concluded that his child was most definitely not vaccine injured, there were clear signs of autism as young as four months of age, as documented in in his medical records.  This is not mentioned in the film. In fact, Hooker actually shows samples of studies he has authored, studies that were proven to lack validity in his court case. To me, this is disturbing. It is just the first of many lies in the film.

Hooker goes on to explain more of his take on the recordings of conversations with Thompson. He claims he had been trying talk to the CDC for years about the research he had been doing that showed vaccines could cause autism but had hit a wall until they assigned Thompson to talk to him. Throughout the film, we see Hooker explaining how he came to participate in phone conversations with Thompson, why they were recorded without Thompson’s permission, and how he, Hooker, analyzed the data. It should be noted that Hooker is a biochemical engineer and biology professor but that does not give him expertise in this kind of data analysis.

We then switch to Andy Wakefield telling his story. Wakefield claims he got the impetus to study vaccines, autism and gastrointestinal diseases when a mother of an autist called him out of the blue.  Bill Gates is shown discussing how Wakefield’s findings were fraudulent and have been disproven but Wakefield goes on to repeat that he made significant scientific findings. The voiceover from Wakefield is accompanied by more footage of children with autism. These videos are repeatedly show autistic children in crisis, hitting themselves, crying, in diapers, or worse. Throughout the film, neurotypical children are shown in a very positive light and autistic children are shown in crisis situations.

Jonathon and Polly Tommey talk about their story. Their first child, Bella, is shown as a lovely, happy child. Their second child, Billy, apparently got sick after his 6 month vaccines. He was put on antibiotics. The film repeatedly returns to Polly and Jonathon Tommey talking about the day Billy got the MMR. They claim Billy was shaking uncontrollably, in his cot, so they rushed him to the hospital.  They were told he was having a “normal” febrile seizure as a side effect.  They claim the Billy they had before never returned. Other parents, with similar stories, are shown, including Mark Blaxil, Jeanna Reed and Sheila Lewis Ealey.  Their autistic children are shown in very sad circumstances, including crying, being violent, in diapers, while their not autistic children are shown in lovely clothing, performing on the piano and playing. Jon and Polly talk about Billy’s vacancy, his lack of smiling, his blankness and other health problems that impaired Billy after his autism months regression. Billy was “gone,” in their words. They discuss the “tragedy” of Billy regressing into an autistic state. Polly and Jon talk about the television show they were featured on, when Billy was a toddler, and how they started The Autism File magazine as a result of the stories they heard from other parents with autistic children. These events led them to move to the USA and continue to be involved in this kind of autism advocacy.

Wakefield returns to ask if MMR is a risk, if it can lead to autism. He discusses the MMR vaccine that was withdrawn from Canada because it had a higher risk for meningitis. He claims that vaccine was shipped to the UK and then to developing countries, where it was used until meningitis rates were proven too high and it was removed. He claims age of MMR was part of the reason for the increased risk of meningitis and that it is plausible that age of MMR could be the reason for autism regression. This led to the IOM recommending the CDC do a study on the timing the MMR is given. Hooker returns and he and Wakefield claim that Thompson found a legal loophole which enabled him to get the data the CDC wanted hidden to Hooker for analysis. This data came from the study the CDC did on MMR age, the one authored by De Stefano and Thompson. The loophole is called a citizen’s request, according to Wakefield.

It should be noted that the mumps vaccine that had the meningitis issues was the Urabe strain of mumps, which we never used in USA. In the USA, we have used the Jeryl Lynn strain.  This is not mentioned in the film.

Wakefield goes into more details about his study. Still no mention from him as to how and why his study was retracted. He treats the study as valid throughout the film. He makes the point that when they had the press conference for his study, the Dean of the college deflected questions about what to do next to him, Wakefield, knowing full well he would recommend the single vaccines in lieu of MMR as triple jab. Wakefield says this was followed up by the single vaccines being discontinued and option taken away from parents. He says the concern was for the protection of the program over and above protection of children. If you read his book, Callous Disregard, this is one of many claims he made about his now-retracted study.

Hooker talks about how he analyzed the Thompson data. He fails to mention how he has no background in this type of analysis and his paper published on the data has since been retracted. A graph is shown wherein two lines, representing autistic children and not autistic, but no mention is made of the significance of the interval between the two lines. The difference is not valid unless that interval is analyzed. The confidence interval is a range of values so defined that there is a specified probability that the value of a parameter lies within it. But, Wakefield and Hooker do not mention this aspect of data analysis and most people do not understand data analysis at all. This is either a huge error, on their part, or a hugely devious action. Did they leave this information out on purpose?  At this point, Wakefield claims he advised Hooker to tape record Thompson in case the whistleblower, as he is now called, disappears or is killed.

Bigtree then explains the analysis plan. I have to remind myself this explanation is coming from a person who has no college education and makes a living producing cable television shows. Bigtree and Wakefield explain that the analysis plan was mainly written by Thompson and that deviating from an analysis plan is fraud. To remind you, the reality of the analysis plan is fully explained in this blog post.

Note: It is annoying that most of Thompson’s words are accompanied by a rather strange video image of smokey, colored lines moving across the screen. It is so inexplicable that I took a screen shot to share with readers.

smoke copy

Another part of the problem, in the minds of the film makers, is that the CDC is complicit with “big pharma” in controlling the pharmaceuticals markets. Brandy Vaughn, former Merck salesperson, claims vaccines have less safety testing than other pharmaceuticals. Strangely, this is a lie and it was put into the film without question. Vaughn has no background or training in any science, so it is strange that the filmmakers would use her opinion.

Several “experts” appear in the film. Dr. Doreen Granpeesheh, who runs an autism center called CARD, talks about the signs of autism as videos are shown of children exhibiting these symptoms.  Granpeesheh returns to discuss antibiotic use and regression after vaccines.  We see video footage of Yates Hazelhurt before and after autism diagnosis.  Granpeesheh claims autism is the result of toxic overload, the inability of some children to detoxify. Video of Billy Tommey is shown while Granpeesheh describes how autists become violent as a result of the toxins.

Stephanie Seneff, computer scientist at MIT, comes on to discuss her analysis of the growth of autism. Seneff claims autism rate is going to continue to rise, that it is a perfect exponential curve. She predicts that by 2032, 80% of boys, 50% of all children, will be on the autism spectrum. Respectful Insolence blog has done a nice job of debunking Seneff’s claims.  

Throughout the film, Bigtree speaks to his own self-described expertise as a “medical journalist” and claims that patient stories of autistic regression are ignored by doctors.  He discusses how the CDC “refuses” to do a vaxed versus unvaxed study. He claims the MMR risks would be astronomical and CDC is afraid to do the study. He also discusses how much he does not understand. Yet, even though a great deal of writing about the whistleblower issue had already been done BEFORE the film was made, Bigtree does not bother to interview other scientists, including Dr Matt Carey, for their opinion of the data analysis. He does not say anything about trying to contact Dr Carey or any of the study authors other than Thompson. Further, he makes no mention whatsoever of the autism and vaccine science done by other researchers in and out of the USA. These are all lies by omission.

Debunking a few of Vaxxed’s other lies:

  1. Vaccines are not adequately tested for safety. Wrong. They are more highly tested than other drugs.
  2. The law for vaccine compensation only benefits drug companies. Wrong. The law was written to benefit families and enable a legal climate to exist such that vaccine makers did not stop making vaccines all together.
  3. The vaccine omnibus hearings were defeated by the fraudulent study from the CDC. This is a corruption of justice. Wrong. You can also read more here.
  4. Not one mainstream media source ran the CDC whistleblower story. Wrong.  Stories were run by Time, CNN, Fox, ABC and The Daily Beast.
  5. Autism rate is rising. Wrong. It has stabilized in the last few years.

 

 

So, the film did not open my eyes. The controversy has been swirling since August 2014 and nothing new has changed. The data has been available for download since January 2014. The data was never thrown away as it was always online as part of a large data set called MADDS.

So, why did the filmmakers not mention these facts? Why are they lying? Around the time the film was released, Brian Hooker’s claim for vaccine injury compensation, for his son, was completely denied. I have read the full 58 page opinion and it is damning. Why did the filmmakers not tell the audience about this opinion? I can only guess that they are never going to accept the idea that vaccines do not cause autism, no matter what the science tells them. My guess is that they are going to cling to any “proof” they can find to implicate vaccines as dangerous, whether is is valid or not.

 

 

Thanks for reading and remember to think for yourself!

 

Kathy

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103 thoughts on “A provaxer watched Vaxxed

    • I think you are a fool! There will always be those who cannot accept the truth or God forbid they may be wrong. I think you fall in both categories.
      I have known many children who have shown “signs” at 4 months (mostly due to Hep B at birth) who developed autism with continuous vaccination or miraculously recovered with no more vaccination.
      For all of your supporters, wake up you fools!!! Throw away your egotiscal bullshit, and stop being part of these crimes against our children!
      PS have you met many unvaccinated people? I have, funny they are the healthiest children, adults and seniors I’ve ever met!!! Go do your research on that smarty pants! 😡

      Liked by 1 person

      • I’m sorry but the research does not support your comment. Unvaccinated persons are NOT the healthiest. I have seen first hand as a provider as well as looked at evidenced based research.

        Like

      • I have no egotistical bullshit to throw away. Just good sound science. Yes, I do know unvaccinated people and they are not the healthiest. They endure longer illnesses than most people and tend to subject their children to endless “natural” treatments that really do not work.

        Like

  1. “Hooker returns and he and Wakefield claim that Thompson found a legal loophole which enabled him to get the data the CDC wanted hidden to Hooker for analysis.”

    Hooker has changed his story a few times on this. Usually painting himself as hero.

    CDC made the data available to any researcher who wanted it (and could submit a proposal that shows that there is a legitimate research project). For over 10 years CDC had the info on how to get the data on their website, but no one wanted it. I think they finally took it down before Hooker applied. They put the info back up after Hooker’s (now retracted) paper was published.

    Short version, it’s very, very mundane how he obtained the data.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. 2 comments, looks like pro vacc people agree with this, what people fail to understand is that nobody is against vaccines, what smart people are against is A) that they do not prevent disease, B) and they do a lot of harm, fix those two problems and the debate goes away.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Very nicely done!

    I’d love to do a study on human belief systems… What is it that despite evidence to the contrary keeps people from accepting proof confirming the opposite of what they believe.

    Liked by 1 person

      • I have wondered, often, if Munchausen /Munchausen by proxy might also play a role in their “reasoning” and beliefs. One of the other things that disgusts me is how vulture like anti-vaxers become when a child passes away (especially from SIDS) and the speed in which they converge on a post about a SIDS death, whether it be a news article or the fb page of the parent(s), and in a horrifying disregard of compassion they start asking if the child was vaccinated. Or jump right to their belief that the child was vaccinated and blame the death on vaccines. They often blame the parents for the child’s death, and I have even seen comments where they say the parent deserved to have their child died because the parents vaccinated their child. I could go on and on, but I am sure you have seen the same and possibly worse.
        Thank you for writing this article, it is something I will definitely share as well. Keep up the great work, and thanks for “taking one for the team” so to speak and watching that horrible “movie” and telling us what it contains. Now I know what is in it and I don’t have to torture myself by going to see it.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. This attempt to spin the most egregious example of the abuse of science into nothing fails.

    Hooker had to wait ten years for the data. Why?
    He was instructed on how to analyze the data by Thompson, who pointed him specifically to the African American and Isolated Autism results. If they were not a big deal, why would he point Hooker to them?
    Thompson’s files (made available to the public via Rep. Bill Posey) includes William Thompson’s ppt prepared for the IOM, which includes the African American and Isolated Autism results. Thompson never have the presentation to the IOM, instead DeStefano did. In
    DeStefano’s ppt to the IOM, both the African American and the Isolated Autism results were removed. WHY?

    Like

    • Yes, your attempt to spin the most egregious abuse of science is terrible and has failed. I know that is not what you wanted to write but your poor grammar skills produced the opposite point you intended. You are abusing science and that is egegrious and you have spun yourself into some antivax saint. However, it was really not very hard at all to prove you wrong.

      Hooker did not have to wait ten years for the data. It was in MADDS the entire time he could have applied to get it at any time.

      https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/developmentaldisabilities/madds.html

      Thompson has an opinion and he shared it with Hooker. Hooker recorded Thompson without his permission, by the way, which is illegal. I am still waiting for Thompson to sue Hooker on that one.

      Thompson had an opinion not supported by anyone else. Hooker’s analysis of the data was retracted as shoddy. Everyone else who has analyzed the data has found the original conclusion accurate.

      Thompsons files were not made public by Rep Posey. Dr Matt Carey asked his office for the files, they gave them over, and Dr Carey made them public.

      Thompson appears, in his letter to Geberdering, to not have very good public speaking confidence. That is likely why he did not do the presentation.

      The African American effect and isolated autism are fabrications of Wakefield and Hooker. They were never there.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Pingback: An Anti-Anti-Vaxxer watches Vaxxed. – autisticagainstantivaxxers

  6. I see you have done your research however I’d like to hear your argument against the fact that there are many documented cases of children being vaccinated or double vaccinated with mmr and then becoming autistic. If autism is not a possible side effect then how could this be possible? Why do all the parents report the same symptoms?

    Like

    • I would refer you to the Brian Hooker vaccine injury claim, wherein you will see how the Hookers did not tell the public the truth about the early warnings signs of developmental issues their son showed before the MMR.

      https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2002vv0472-118-0

      I would also read the book The Panic Virus. You will read about the Cedillo case, where something similar happened.

      Parents miss early warning signs or lie about having ignored them.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Reallt I understand what you are saying but then from that information your saying 100% are either lying or missing warning signs. I can refer you to cases where that has not been the case and i knew someone as a child whom had no symptoms whatsoever and within a day or two they were the equivalent of a zombie. 1 or 2 maybe but we are talking thousands who have all experienced this effect

        Like

      • I tend to see the best in people so I would say they are not lying but missed or ignored warning signs. The antivax movement sucks people in, so it is easy to get caught up in it and go deeper and deeper into the conspiracy worm hole.

        There are genetic issues, like Dravet’s Syndrome, that can be triggered by a fever or such, from an illness or a vaccine. Perhaps the zombie child had Dravet’s? Not very nice to call the child a zombie, by the way.

        And you do realize that most parents of autists, even severely disabled children, are not antivax, right? If you do not, please visit Thinking Person’s Guide to Autism.
        http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/

        Like

  7. Thanks for the post. Haven’t had a chance to see the movie myself yet. In my 27 years in medicine, I’ve seen one vaccine injury – from DTwP, which is no longer in use. If there are 1000s of kids whose “lights go out” immediately after the MMR, why haven’t I seen a single case?

    Liked by 1 person

      • Yes, it seems that in most cases, it is a recall issue. At time of diagnosis, they try to think back to when the first symptoms appeared, and correlate it with the time of vaccines. I really feel there is a lot of denial in these parents. I remember one case of autism I diagnosed in a child I had been following since birth and the signs where there from the beginning. I kept referring him to different specialists and they would never take him. Finally they were trying to send him to preschool and the school tested him and found he was delayed.

        Like

    • unfortunately janem1276 i have seen it once with my own eyes and I have no doubt in my mind that it was the vaccine. I noticed you attacked someone you don’t know about their credentials so I’ll just add I have two single degrees in science and technology, so i’m not a google warrior!

      Like

      • Dr. Paul Offit’s wife is a pediatrician. He relates that she was just about to give a vaccine to a child in her office when the child, later determined to have epilepsy, had his very first ever seizure. There is no doubt that had that seizure happened after the vaccine had been administered the parents would absolutely forever have been convinced that the vaccine caused the seizure.

        The post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy is very difficult for people to get around.

        A vaccine is not going to turn a child into a zombie in two days. Whatever caused his illness started before he got the vaccine.

        Liked by 2 people

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  10. Thanks, Kathy.

    I arrived here via your review of the movie at Amazon.com. What a mess the AV folks are creating there. Since I have no intention of giving Wakefield et. al. any of my money, I appreciate your synopsis very much.

    Liked by 1 person

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  19. There’s an awful lot of hate talk on here which is disappointing, and even more hyperbole from both camps, but anyway, here’s my 2c worth.

    There is no smoke without fire. Given the large number of vaccine-injured kids and the rise of autism (to nearly 1 in 50). Stop and think about that – almost 1 in 50 kids. Something is going wrong. Desperately wrong. So WHY isn’t anything being done to stop that?! We have to ask ourselves,”What is is it we are doing so drastically different from what we were doing 50 years ago?”

    Well, a big part of the answer is vaccines, but I get there are possible/probable other factors, but we need to isolate them.

    First of all, my view on vaccines is this:- If it wasn’t around 50 years ago, we probably don’t need it now.

    That may be a bit broad-sweeping for many, but it suits me.

    And then there’s ultrasound, which wasn’t available when I was born. Sure, as a tool it can be valuable in spotting problems early in the baby’s development, but most people tend to use it these days as a means to get a photo of their unborn baby. It has more entertainment value than serious medical application. But WHO knows what effect ultrasound waves might have on a few clustered cells forming the early stages of a brain? Ultrasound was originally developed to check the quality of steel rivets in ships, not for looking into pregnant mothers.

    The Chinese did an extensive survey into ultrasound, and recommended minimal use. http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/50-in-utero-human-studies-confirm-risks-prenatal-ultrasound/

    Anyway, none of this is stopping our society leaping headlong over the cliff like lemmings (also, now debunked!) and carrying on as if NOTHING is causing a problem.

    When my wife was pregnant we had no ultrasounds and no vaccines. Our now 7-year-old son has never had so much as a cold, and is happy, fit and very smart.

    Our 11yo, by comparison, WAS vaccinated and is always coming down with something, and even got chicken pox (even though he was vaccinated against it!).

    When you think that in the 80s, most kids had 9 vaccinations by the time they were 10, and today that number is 36, with 22 of those in their first 12 months(!) I think we have to pause and ask a few pertinent questions.

    I’m sorry, but the ‘science’ is bought and paid for. The numbers of injured kids speak for themselves.

    My 2c is up.

    Like

    • 1. “Given the large number of vaccine-injured kids and the rise of autism (to nearly 1 in 50).” There is not a large number of vaccine injured children. Autism rate is 1.5% in USA, Australia and Canada and that, plus 1% intellectual disability rate, is in keeping with mental retardation rate of several generations ago. Prior to 1950s, we diagnosed 3-5% of children as mentally retarded. We replaced MR with ASD and ID.

      2. “So WHY isn’t anything being done to stop that?! ” For one thing, many people on the spectrum don’t want to be changed. For another thing, research is ongoing into genetics and environmental causes.

      3. “If it wasn’t around 50 years ago, we probably don’t need it now.” That is a shame. I was born 50 years ago and have never had measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, diphtheria, polio, rotavirus, hepatitis B, HIB, pneumonia, tetanus, or meningitis. 50 years ago, those were common.

      4. “And then there’s ultrasound, which wasn’t available when I was born.” You are welcome to not use ultrasound technology. I know plenty of mothers who are very glad for ultrasound technology telling them their children had issues that could be helped by medical interventions, such as medication and surgery. I know many women who have children ALIVE today thanks to ultrasound technology. I know many women who are thankful for what ultrasound technology can tell us about our health and our baby’s health. I do agree that it should only be used for medical reasons.

      5. I do not consider HHE a valid source but I will read the original study.

      6. I am glad your child is healthy despite advances in medical technology. Most people are happy to have medical technology advances that help us live healthier, longer lives.

      7. In the 80s, most children still got chicken pox. In the 70s, I had chicken pox twice. In the 2000s, my fully vaccinated children get to avoid all 14 diseases by age and another 2 in their teens. Win-win.

      The science is not bought and paid.

      Like

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  23. Here are only two (out of many) questions to Provax activist:
    You claim that in the movie they have interviewed just the one side of the story, not their opponents. How would you comment on the very final segment of the movie that says: “we have invited 6 “provax”ers to be part of the film (they have their names in subtitles) and those people declined”! Also, please share ur insight about why they might have decline?

    In “Debunking a few of other lies” section, under number 4 you say: the whistleblowers wrongly claim in the movie that their activity has not been covered by the mainstream media. As a proof You refer to certain links of CNN, etc that supposedly indicate the opposite: they have been covered by the mainstream press.
    My impression is that the movie, actually, refers to a DIFFERENT activity that has not been covered. It took place “in the fall of the last year” (1:16:10). The links that you have provided are related to August, which, as we know, is not fall. So, what they refer to in the film and what you have showed as a “debunking” are not about the same.

    Like

      • a. Firstly regarding your second post. You say: “My guess is they declined to work with Wakefield. He is that tainted in the scientific community.” Pls do NOT talk on behalf of the entire scientific community. Many scientists in America and in EU agree with Wakefield. Your generalization is incorrect.

        b. those six provax people could have been interviewed by someone else, not necessarily wakefield himself. If the provaxers were (and are) correct and sure in their scientific judgements about MMR, they, logically, should have grabbed the opportunity to talk the moviemaker, especially to a megastar like De Niro. Much more likely, they chose to decline, because their perspectives would not have been able to stand the other side’s arguments.
        The bottom line: Your statement, that the film is one-sided is incorrect and manipulative. It disregards the basic fact that the movie makers have offered a platform to the provax scientists.

        c. now about your 1st statement: at 1:16:10 he says, “I got a phone call in the fall of last year” and “two weeks later” they had an event, which was not covered. Your links from August do not fit the timing of this story.

        d. Your many provax statements are highly controversial. You claim the numbers of Autism have not grown thought the years and its schizophrenia and MR that are being qualified as “autism” nowadays (which was not the case before). This is another wrong judgement and can easily be debunked. Pls think how would the curve of Autism look like in that case, as opposed to what we observe today.

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      • “Many scientists in America and in EU agree with Wakefield.” This is untrue. Wakefield is persona non grata to the vast majority of the scientific community.

        There is very little fact in the film. For example, the claim that African American boys have a greater risk of autism after MMR comes from Brian Hooker’s now retracted analysis of the Thompson data. Why didn’t the filmmakers mention that? Why did they not mention that there are many studies of autism by race and not one shows more autism in African American boys? Why did they not mention that Brian Hooker lost his VICP case? Why did they not mention the Sheila Ealey filed a vaccine injury claim but it was closed after she failed to provide even one shred of evidence that her son had received MMR twice and that that caused injury. They gave her three warnings and years to gather data. She found nothing.

        Just a few of the many lies told in that film.

        My links to dates fit the facts. The timeline in the harpocrates speaks blog is correct. I have been closely following this story since August of 2014. The film came out in 2016. It is likely Del was being filmed in 2015 so when he mentioned last fall, he meant fall of 2014, which was after the initial events took place in August of 2014. He likely got a call around the time Hooker and Wakefield filed a complaint about the paper being retracted, which was October 2014.

        My claim about autism diagnosis changing is based on facts, not an opinion. Autism is not new. It has been here for all eternity. It is not caused by vaccines. I would urge you to read Neurotribes by Steve Silberman.

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      • “My claim about autism diagnosis changing is based on facts, not an opinion.”

        This is why when they make claims about autism not being around fifty years ago I ask about which DSM the diagnosis was made. I was assured my non-verbal three year old was not autistic be he smiled, but that was under DSM III. He qualifies under both DSM IV and DSM V. Fifty years ago there was only “Schizophrenic reaction, childhood type.”

        This site shows the various changes: http://www.unstrange.com/dsm1.html

        Also, Dr. Grinker’s book is a good read. Another older out of print book, but is available on Kindle, is Not Even Wrong: A Father’s Journey into the Lost History of Autism by Paul Collins. And “autismresearch” should definitely read Neurotribes by Silberman.

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  24. You just wrote “It is LIKELY Del was being filmed in 2015” or “He LIKELY got a call around the time Hooker and Wakefield filed a complaint” this clearly means you are not certain about the timing. Then do not put links and insist that those links are about something you are not sure 100%.

    The scientists in this film and many other films, books, the university in Poland’s Byalistok have done research and have asserted that vaccines do cause autism. So, don’t declare Wakefield a persona non grata on your own.

    “Why did they not mention the Sheila Ealey filed a vaccine injury claim but it was closed after she failed to provide even one shred of evidence that her son had received MMR twice and that that caused injury. They gave her three warnings and years to gather data. She found nothing.”
    The nurse gave a shot and Sheila left the hospital. Then time passed. How would that be possible for poor Sheila to collect an evidence about how many shots her autistic son have gotten some time, maybe years ago. What kind of evidence you mean, technically?

    If you are interested in facts, not propaganda, fix the part of your original post, where you claim that the movie is one-sided. Per se this passage: “Bigtree does not bother to interview other scientists.”
    Add here that 6 provax scientists actually DID decline themselves to be interviewed by the movie makers. You yourself don’t mention a basic fact in your status, however, you claim that “the film makers did not mention this or that.”
    This is a manipulation.

    Like

    • The MMR vaccine was introduced in the USA in 1971. If it was associated with autism it would have been noticed there first since it is much much larger than the UK, and had been using the MMR vaccine twenty years before Wakefield’s “research.”

      Please show us the how well you actually research autism: provide verifiable documentation dated before 1990 that there was an uptick in autism coincident to the use of the American MMR during the 1970s and 1980s. Be sure to include which version of the DSM the autism was diagnosed under.

      “… Poland’s Byalistok have done research and have asserted that vaccines do cause autism.”

      Citation needed. Then tell why research in another country has relevance when they use different vaccines. Hint: there are different measles, mumps and rubella vaccine strains used in Eastern Europe:
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22336803

      And:
      Int J Epidemiol. 1994 Oct;23(5):1069-77.
      Immunization of 6 and 9 month old infants with AIK-C, Edmonston-Zagreb, Leningrad-16 and Schwarz strains of measles vaccine.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I am quite confident in the timeline.

      Sheila could have gotten the nurse to testify that she gave two shots.

      It is not manipulation to say the film is full of lies and they did not interview anyone pro vax. I don’t really care if they reached out to those six and those six declined. There are millions of provax scientists and doctors on earth. They had plenty of choices.

      Like

      • You are confident wrongly.
        1:16:00 to 1:17:00 the films clearly says: the phone call came in the FALL of last year, and the “TWO WEEKS LATER… ” The links from August you provided do not work here. Break!

        “Sheila could have gotten the nurse to testify that she gave two shots.” WOW! A million dollar statement! Thank you. And what you think, how would the nurse testify?

        Yes and they elected six people and called them and they declined the interviews, (which is very strange). You, yourself, should have at least mentioned this fact about declining the interviews by CDC people in your original comment. And let the readers make their own judgements on who is right who is wrong. But you did not.
        Further communication does not make sense to me. Finally bye!

        Like

      • Again, I am not alone in understanding the timeline of events. They are quite well published. It is very telling that you believe the film and not facts in evidence.

        How would the nurse testify? She would have put it in the medical record that she gave the boy two MMRs and Sheila’s attorneys would have taken a statement from her, along with the medical records. Since the story is fabricated, none of that happened.

        Like

  25. “The MMR vaccine was introduced in the USA in 1971. If it was associated with autism it would have been noticed there first since it is much much larger than the UK, and had been using the MMR vaccine twenty years before Wakefield’s “research.”

    Amazing logic!
    Giordano Bruno from Naples said the Earth is round in 16th century. According to your logic it should had been the Chinese or Indian scholars, not Bruno, to found out first what the shape of the Earth was. There were more Chinese people numerically, as opposed to Napolitans, they had studied science and astrology much earlier, etc. Thus we disqualify Bruno’s discovery.

    Coming to vaccines and autism: The link has been noticed in the US NOW, not in 70s, then what? What does it change?

    Like

    • So you don’t have that data? Pity, it would have helped exonerate Wakefield by providing that he had something other than Richard Barr bringing him his clients for a lawsuit.

      Of course, then we would have had to know which MMR vaccine that Lancet study was on. There were three in use in the UK between 1988 and 1992 (two were removed due to problems with the Urabe mumps vaccine strain), but then something went awry when he included an American kid with a completely different MMR version. So that is at least four possible versions. Not a good study design when you can’t nail down the actual product you are evaluating.

      “The link has been noticed in the US NOW, not in 70s, then what? What does it change?”

      Well, that depends on the DSM at the time. Do tell us which DSM we should accept for the diagnosis of those with autism between 1990 and “NOW.” Because I have already mentioned my then non-verbal three year old did not qualify in the 1990s, but does “NOW.”

      Liked by 1 person

      • You did not refer to my comment. a. it makes no difference who discovered the link between the vaccines and MMR the 1st: Brits, Japanese, Poles or Americans. Claiming that “because the Americans have not noticed something is wrong with MMR in 70s, (before Wakefield) then it disqualifies Wakefields research” makes absolutely no sense logically and scientifically. Agreed?
        b. The film itself and variety of links (not the ones related to corporations or their funds) suggest enough evidences. The film, the university in British Columbia or Poland have the data. The more important question is: who does or does not have conscious?
        Bye, Chris. All the best to your son.

        Like

      • There is no evidence in the film. The only thing they present is Brian Hooker’s now retracted analysis of the Thompson data. As I already mentioned, there are many studies of autism by race and none show African American boys have more autism. None. Hooker’s math was highly flawed, which is why his study was retracted.

        Like

      • Which MMR vaccine? Please tell tell us which variation you are speaking about. Do you not understand that the Japanese MMR vaccine is completely different from the American MMR vaccine, which is different from the Polish MMR vaccine?

        They are different vaccines! There is no such thing as The MMR vaccine. It is obvious that you did not bother to click on the link provided, nor have you figured out how to find an abstract on PubMed. Why do you call yourself “autismresearch687273131” if you cannot read actual research?

        If you had done a modicum of research you would have learned that the beginning of the MMR issues was due to the use of the Urabe mumps vaccine strain that was developed in Japan. It was a cheaper alternative to the American Jeryl Lynn mumps vaccine strain developed in the late 1960s. The USA has only ever used the Jeryl Lynn mumps vaccine strain.

        The Urabe mumps strain is why Japan scrapped its MMR vaccine, and why UK scrapped two the MMR vaccines in 1992. It caused too much meningitis.

        In fact, Wakefield caused a wee bit of fuss when he told parents to seek single vaccines. In the UK if you decide to go against NHS standards you need to go to a private clinic and pay for it for yourself. So some opportunistic clinic decided to bend the laws a bit and import the mumps vaccine that caused the meningitis:
        MEDICINES CONTROL AGENCY TO OBJECT TO IMPORTATION OF UNLICENSED SINGLE URABE STRAIN MUMPS VACCINE

        (Seriously the text in a different color like green or blue are links to other websites, you should really truly click on those!)

        Like

  26. http://www.cellgenesys.com/study-shows-link-vaccines-autism/

    I feel sorry for the kids, who could be smiling, chatting, playing with their pals, later on doing research, studying, contributing to the progress of their country and the mankind, but instead, they have been crippled, remained alone and unhappy because some people, some corporations are eager to make gazzzzilions of dollars on those injections.

    I pray that my 3 year old son, who was a happy and babbling boy by 11th month old and changed significantly after he got his damned 18th month shot, will recover as much AS MUCH as possible. I pray (and pay) for it. And I hope one day this nightmare with MMR will be over.
    This is my last post to here and my last question to you: the defenders of the corporations:
    If you claim that there is no link then pls explain: how come there are thousands of cases (search the Youtube) when a happy and talkative and smiling kid regresses to autism literally THE SAME DAY after the gets the MMR shot? In the movie the British couple says their son changed the same week after the shot. How else one can explain this other than linking it to the notorious shot? Or you claim all those parrents lie and you (and the corporations) are the truthful ones?

    Bye…

    Like

    • Autism does not cripple. To cripple means to be unable to walk properly. Autism does not make people unable to walk.

      Autism does not make people alone. They have family and school and many resources.

      Most people on the autism scale go to work, as adults, and contribute greatly to society. Some of our best scientists and inventors are autistic. Only a small percent of autistics are very disabled.

      I am sorry you have such a negative view of autism. I would never use that kind of negative thought with my own child.

      I cannot answer your question about corporations because I read and espouse independent science. I can tell you that all those parents missed the early warning signs. How do I know that? Science.

      I have two books for you to read: Neurotribes by Steve Silberman and The Panic Virus by Seth Mnookin.

      Liked by 1 person

      • No, they do not change the same day. That has been proven wrong on all accounts. The parent stories are full of holes. Very often, medical records indicate the baby showed signs of developmental delays long before vaccines. And, there is just as much autism in the unvaxed population.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oh, crud… my response did not get threaded like I wanted it to be.

        Please, autismresearch, there is help for you child… all you need to do is find the resources in your community. And I really encourage you to join the SPARK for Autism project because you may find therapies that can actually help.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I know what cripple means. I meant it cripples the life of kids. Was that easy thing so hard to understand? Or you try to cast a shadow over what your opponents say by all means?

        Those who do not endorse the vaccines are also scientists, independent, smart, with PhDs.

        Like

      • “Those who do not endorse the vaccines are also scientists, independent, smart, with PhDs”

        That is a feckless appeal to authority. Having a PhD does not automatically make someone qualified.

        And stop demeaning your child by calling him “crippled.” Seek out the services in your community, and support your child with real therapies.

        Liked by 1 person

    • That is not a PubMed indexed study. It is a confused news report that did not give any information about this “research”, but mentioned lots of silly stuff and ended with a VAXXED youtube. Not convincing.

      By the way, despite differences in vaccine strains, due to the type viruses used in them… none contain thimerosal.

      If your son is a three year old who has been recently diagnosed and you live in the United States of American then please sign up to help real science that just involves filling a questionnaire and submitting the spit of your son, and both parents. Your son even gets a gift certificate! Check it out:
      https://sparkforautism.org/

      Bonus: if your son has certain genetic sequences, there are parent forums specific to their needs!

      If you are an American, I hope you are taking advantage of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act rights. Call up your local school district to get your son into a special ed preschool with speech therapy, along with occupational and physical therapy (the program is known as “Child Find”, required of all public school districts). Look for you local ARC chapter and check into their parent and/or child programs.

      There are answers, and help. Though life gets easier if you follow reality and not fantasies.

      Most importantly: you are not alone.

      Liked by 1 person

  27. “No, they do not change the same day. That has been proven wrong on all accounts. ”

    In other words, you claim that those who say that their kid(s) has changed overnight or few days after they have been injected the MMR vaccine are technically lying? You claim that?

    In the film a British couple says their child has regressed into autism just few days after the injection. What are the evidences and how has it been “proven wrong on all account” as you claim? Please be precise. Because thats what your posts usually lack.

    Like

  28. This is why, Chris, I asked to write PRECISELY: what are the evidences that the British couple is incorrect. You assume they are incorrect based on your belief, but that’s your personal assumption, not a crystal clear fact or argument, yes? One can easily assume the opposite, as well.
    The above-mentioned facts regarding memory-loss or confusion do not absolutely mean that the parents, whose kids changed after the MMR injection, tell the facts incorrectly.

    If the son/daughter changes right after the injection, the parents take their children to hospital the same or the following days, go crazy, call other people seeking a piece of advice, pray, loose their sleep, etc. This kind of chronology, technically, eliminate the “not remembering the past clearly” option. Its too much, too intense, too bright to forget. So, in other words, either you accept they are right, or you assume they lie.

    Like

  29. Considering that you and the main blogger lady “deny” any argument i suggest, i assume, it is really meaningless to continue this chat. Getting back to Mr. Bruno: he said the Earth is round and the scholastic “scientists” burned him on the fire for that. Wakefield suggested that the MMR leads to regression into autism and you grill him. The time showed that Bruno was right…

    Like

    • I told you why anecdotes are not data. Now, if that British couple were able to take their case to court then we might have a more flushed out story. We are simply not going to accept the unverified story from anyone. Did you actually read the wiki link I gave you?

      As far as Wakefield and the MMR vaccine: the real question is which MMR vaccine was that retracted Lancet study about.

      I explained that the UK introduced three different MMR vaccines in 1988, and removed two of them due to the mumps vaccine strain in 1992. So the eleven British kids chosen by the lawyer Richard Barr were possibly vaccinated with upwards of three different MMR vaccines. Then there was the one American kid, who had the American MMR vaccine that had been used since 1978.

      You don’t seem to grasp that an MMR vaccine has been around since 1971, and that different countries have different versions.

      So exactly which MMR vaccine is supposed to cause autism, and where is that evidence?

      Seriously, what kind of autism “research” do you do? Is it just being gullible about unverified stories you read on teh internets?

      Do yourself and child a big favor, sign up for the SPARKS for Autism study and participate in real science. You might actually learn something.

      Like

    • One of the first things you learn in a science lab is to keep the number of variables to a minimum. If one was going to research a certain vaccine, then they need to be the same vaccine. Not</b four different versions!

      That is what Wakefield did. He had no clue that there were different versions. Plus he also changed the data. He was a gut surgeon, he had absolutely no qualifications in autism nor virology.

      Bruno, unlike Wakefield, was actually correct. Plus Bruno did not make stuff up.

      Here is Wakefield's story in a form you might actually understand:
      http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html

      Liked by 1 person

    • cripple
      noun [ C ] UK /ˈkrɪp.əl/ US ​ /ˈkrɪp.əl/

      (offensive old-fashioned) a person who cannot use their arms or legs in a normal way

      emotional cripple (informal)

      someone who finds it difficult to have or express feelings

      https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/cripple

      1 cripple /ˈkrɪpəl/ noun

      (old-fashioned + offensive) a person who cannot move or walk normally because of a permanent injury (such as a damaged leg or foot) or other physical problem

      2
      (informal) a person who has emotional problems that prevent normal behavior with other people

      http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/cripple

      Like

    • cripple (n.)
      Old English crypel, related to cryppan “to crook, bend,” from Proto-Germanic *krupilaz (source also of Old Frisian kreppel, Middle Dutch cropel, German krüppel, Old Norse kryppill). Possibly also related to Old English creopan “to creep” (creopere, literally “creeper,” was another Old English word for “crippled person”).

      cripple (v.)
      mid-13c., “to move slowly,” from cripple (n.). Meaning “make a cripple of, lame” is from early 14c. Related: Crippled; crippling.

      https://www.etymonline.com/word/cripple

      Liked by 1 person

    • Love and support your child, don’t denigrate him with old fashioned words that are now insults.

      Get him the actual factual supports he needs, like speech and occupational/physical therapy. Since you say he is three years old, I hope that he is in a good special ed. preschool as required by the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. (my son attended one for kids who could not speak but could hear because “autism” was not a diagnosis in 1990… but there were monthly parent meetings where we learned about local services, which is how I learned about local Scottish Rite Center for Childhood Language Disorders that provided my kid three years of free speech therapy — we still give them donations)

      Find your local chapter of The ARC: http://www.thearc.org/ . They have programs that support both the disabled, and those who care for them. They also have information on services in your local area.

      Please sign up for the SPARKS for Autism research program. You may actually find that he has a known genetic sequence with its own parental support system. I am very familiar that it may not happen since the results of son’s genetic test for his genetic heart disorder did not match any of the then known sequences. But you might get lucky. You won’t know unless you actually try.

      Also read the books that we have suggested for you. Grinker’s Unstrange Minds was lovely, as was Paul Collins’ Not Even Wrong. Mr. Silberman’s book Neurotribes really goes into the history.

      Though for a giggle or two, I really recommend two books by John Elder Robison: Look Me in the Eye and Raising Cubby.

      Like

  30. Why should you take the risk of vaccine your children while the risk to get sick of one of the children diseases is almost zero.
    When I may do it all over again I would think twice.

    Like

    • The reason the risk of getting certain diseases is small is because your responsible neighbors vaccinate their families. But with folks like you, that can change quickly. Did you forget about the measles outbreak that started at Disneyland? After the break up of the Soviet Union, diphtheria came back with a vengeance: Diphtheria in the former Soviet Union: reemergence of a pandemic disease..

      Please do come up with some PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that show the present American MMR vaccine causes more harm than measles, mumps and rubella. Then do the same to the present American DTaP causes more harm than diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.

      Liked by 1 person

    • The risk of getting, say measles, is very low in modern countries because we vaccinate. However, one only need look at Europe to see what happens when vax rates drop. I want my children to be protected, regardless of where they travel. And I want to contribute to herd immunity.

      Now, for some diseases, like Hepatitis B or HPV, the risk is higher.

      You might want to read the history of modern diseases.

      Like

  31. Pingback: A provaxer watches The Pathological Optimist | vaccinesworkblog

  32. Pingback: Del Bigtree is not a scientist | vaccinesworkblog

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